Public agents involved with INSS fraud are from the Bolsonaro government, says Pimenta

Federal Deputy Paulo Pimenta (PT-RS) was cast by the Lula administration to coordinate the parliamentarians of the base at the INSS’s Mixed Parliamentary Parliamentary Commission (CPMI). The gaucho is used to difficult tasks. In this Lula’s mandate alone, he was chief minister of the Secretariat of Social Communication and coordinated the assistance work in the reconstruction of Rio Grande do Sul, after last year’s floods.

In an interview with Infomoneythe parliamentarian leaves the goal of the governors at CPMI: to associate the irregularities found in the INSS with the management of former President Jair Bolsonaro and put the Lula government as responsible for investigating and discovered the corruption scheme. “The public agents involved in this criminal scheme are all linked to the previous government,” said Pimenta.

According to the deputy, changes in the rules for INSS discounts were made by the Bolsonaro government, even ending the need for authorization for renewal. “The main changes were making more vulnerable the supervisory and control bodies, and the worst effect for the country was in 2023,” he said.

He also says that it was, from this situation, that the determination arose, by the Lula administration, to investigate and to bring the criminal scheme to the end.

Read also: INSS CPMI Rapporteur: Just justifies listening to Bolsonaro if Lula, Dilma and Temer

CPMI has already begun with a defeat to the government in the president’s nominations and the rapporteur. For Pimenta, the committee chairman, Senator Carlos Viana (Somos-MG), has done a balanced work. The governors now managed to indicate Deputy Duarte Júnior (PSB-MA) for the vice presidency.

Infoomoney – You were designated to defend the government in the INSS CPMI. Is it an arduous task?

Paulo PimentA – My role is to coordinate the government base at CPMI, which means to ensure mobilization, the organization, to help in the preparation of parliamentarians, the government base, so that they have all the necessary information to be able to make the debate.

IM – Did this concern come after that turnaround in the choice of the president and the CPMI rapporteur articulated by the opposition?

PP – Government leaders have many tasks, so it was necessary a parliamentarian who was prioritarily dedicated to CPMI’s work. It is to help the work of the leaders themselves, not to replace.

IM-The government was able to appoint deputy Duarte Júnior as vice president. There is still an imbalance, as opposition indicated president and rapporteur. Having a more aligned deputy to the government at least soften this inequality?

PP -Deputy Duarte Júnior is a good deputy, but so far, the work of CPMI president, Senator Carlos Viana (Somos-MG), has also been quite balanced and the work plan that has been approved us. Also, we have a majority in the commission. Any attempt to divert the committee from the main focus of the investigation will have our opposition.

We will have our support all the initiatives to investigate the fraud, to know who made the changes that allowed these ghost entities to be accredited, who promoted the changes to allow no longer the need for individual authorization to be done and who changed the rules so that there was no more need for the annual renewal of authorization.

The focus is to identify those responsible and track the money to know where the diverted money ended up.

IM – Some changes in legislation were made in the Bolsonaro government, but there was a leap in the deviations in the Lula administration. What do you attribute this to?

PP – All the changes were made by the Bolsonaro government, including the one that ended the need for renewal authorization was December 2022, erasing the lights after the election. The impact of changes, of course, occurs from 2023. These changes have more vulnerable to inspection and control bodies. From this situation, the Lula government’s determination of investigating arises, which led to the operation and the end of the criminal scheme.

IM – Do you agree with the rapporteur’s work plan to start investigating the Dilma government?

PP – We have nothing to hide regarding the Dilma government. The measures adopted during the Dilma government were to regulate Technical Cooperation Agreements (ACT’s) and are very clear in the need for individual authorization. So much so that we had no problem until 2019. There is nothing to be investigated. We are very safe that the changes were made during the Bolsonaro government and that the public agents involved in this criminal scheme are all linked to the previous government.

IM-CPMI rapporteur, Alfredo Gaspar (Union-AL), said he will insist on the call of Friar Chico, brother of President Lula. Is it possible to block this call? If it is summoned, is there wear for the president and the government?

PP – We have no problem that anyone is heard.
However, there needs to be rationality in the research method. We approve, in the work plan, that who should speak for the entities is the president of the entities. We will also hear former INSS president, former ministers, Dataprev presidents, as well as INSS benefit directors.

If you have any other call request that is justified within an investigation methodology and if this is important for work, there is no problem. Now, if it is a casuistic issue, to seal and divert attention from what the focus of the investigation really is, of course we will not agree.

The rapporteur agreed with the methodology that was established and at no time at the meeting did he suggest something different. The president of CPMI has said that we will not call anyone here to content Deputy A, B or C nor to create video to seal on the internet.

CPMI has very strong prerogatives provided for in the Federal Constitution, cannot be room to undermine investigations. Like me, there are several parliamentarians who are here for the truth to appear. But unfortunately, there are parliamentarians who are here to argue that the criminal scheme is not unraveled. So we cannot allow them to want to leak information, go after sensitive information, inquiries that are still underway.

Secondly, we will not allow them to want to escape the focus of the investigation, produce fake news, produce false information that escape the scope of the commission.

IM-Are you in favor of calling or inviting former President Bolsonaro?

PP – It depends on how the investigation advance. Who said they communicated to Bolsonaro what was happening was Senator Izalci (PL-DF). Who said Bolsonaro knew everything that was happening here were parliamentarians of the Bolsonaro government base itself. If, during the investigations, we come to the conclusion that somehow had his participation, he can be called. Now, this will only happen if, during the investigation, it is evident or if there are indications that he effectively participated directly in this criminal scheme.

IM – Do you think this CPMI can reflect, with wear, in the popularity of the Lula administration?

PP – On the contrary, I think this CPMI will be very good for the government. So far the opposition was selling a narrative. From the first testimonials to things will be clear. This first lady who came to testify today – Public Defender Patrícia Bettin – was suggested by the opposition. She came here and said that this scandal has gained a proportion from 2019. There was a working group running since 2019. During 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022 nothing was done. The measures that were adopted to curb the fraud were adopted by the Lula administration. I believe CPMI will be extremely positive for the government.

IM – The rapporteur wants to investigate payroll loans. Do you think CPMI will arrive at this point?

PP “I think it’s early to also investigate payroll loans.” But if in the course of the investigation, we find a connection between unauthorized associative discounts and payroll loans, I see no problem that this investigation be done. We have to remember what happened on the eve of the elections, at Caixa Econômica Federal. When Pedro Guimarães left and Daniella Marques assumed the bank’s presidency, in the days before the elections, they dumped billions of reais creating payroll the emergency aid. So, if there is a need to investigate improper use payable, with the objective of harming the population, naturally we will investigate. Let’s investigate what is needed and I’m sure once again the first one that will have to testify here is Pedro Guimarães.