‘Encensurable damage,’ says a lawyer who warned about billionaire fraud at the INSS

The lawyer Tonia Galleti warned the direction of the INSS and the Ministry of Social Security on fraud revealed this week and culminating in the resignation of Minister Carlos Lupi (PDT). Specializing in Constitutional Law, professor at FGV and former member of the National Social Security Council (CNPS), Tonia confirmed, in an interview with Infoomoney, to have warned the authorities about the problem that had grown in the bowels of the INSS since 2019.

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According to the lawyer, it is not that the alerts have been ignored. Measures were taken, several meetings were held, she reports. “But they were insufficient. Even so, I don’t believe Minister Lupi is involved in corruption,” he says.

As coordinator of the Legal Department of the National Union of Retirees, Pensioners and the Elderly (Sindnapi), one of the supervised institutions, Tonia says regretting seeing serious entities that have been working for over 20 years, being placed at the same level as those who did not provide services. “Everyone is placed on the same balaio and the work of a life goes through the drain,” he says.

Now, the lawyer hopes that alternatives will be found so that entities that act correctly can continue to provide services to retirees, within stronger and more reliable rules.

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Tonia told InfoMoney hours before Carlos Lupi’s resignation announcement. Sought, the lawyer declined to comment on the minister’s departure, but said she kept the answers.

Check out Tonia Galleti’s interview with Infomoney:

Infomoney- You were the first to warn the INSS about the irregularities. But at that time did you have the size of everything we are seeing today?

Tonia Galleti- Indeed, somehow, as we already observed the growth of some associations from zero members to 180 thousand, from 180 thousand to more than 200 thousand. It was crazy the growth of these associations. And we, who have been in the environment for many years, know very well that it is not an easy and simple task to make partners. Even more so many partners in such a short time. We did the dimension of the problem, although obviously we did not know the whole problem.

In 2023, when you made the complaint, you imagined that you would last so long to gather information about the deviations?

Tonia Galleti- We expected to be faster measurements, either to gather information or to remedy the problem. Although it is a problem, I did not imagine that it would take so long.

IM- Did you make complaints in other instances other than the Ministry of Social Security, such as Federal Police or Public Prosecution Service?

Tonia Galleti- complaints were not made formally. We only warn the Ministry of Social Security, the INSS and the National Council of Social Security.

IM- What are the damage to the government, beneficiaries and for institutions that worked correctly?

Tonia Galleti- The damage is immeasurable. First to the image of those who work honestly. Today all people who work with this through unions and associations are being stigmatized as scammers and all the other adjectives we have seen.

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The other damages are for the beneficiaries themselves who will no longer have all the services and benefits offered by the correct entities. For example, at Sindnapi partners may be without life insurance coverage, funeral insurance. There are on average 500 members who die per month. There will be 500 families that will not be assisted. In fact, it is a very large damage.

IM- Do you already have any idea what will happen with the elimination of discounts for the entities that worked correctly?

Tonia Galleti- I do not believe that the suspension will be definitive even for the sake of justice and balance. The state cannot prevent the associative and representative process. Of course, directly it is not hindering the associative process, but because of the difficulty in charging monthly fees in another way, yes, that’s what will happen. And we believe a lot in the sense of balance and justice of the control bodies and the INSS itself to remedy this problem without necessarily harming everyone.

IM- What are the possible exits for this problem?

Tonia Galleti- are some exits. One is to have firmer and tougher regulation so that serious entities can work. We know that hard measures make work difficult, but do not prevent those who do honestly. Implement a revalidation, make a conduct plan for everyone to fit, and return the payment of beneficiaries who want to be partners and pay their monthly fees. There are many possible measures that need to be talked about, negotiated so that we can reach a good term.